Reply To: Discussion – “The Talent Code”

[hockeygod]

Hi Aberdeen – I remember your previous comments about this book. I always enjoy a healthy conversation! I appreciate your wife's background. She is probably much more qualified than I!

Daniel Coyle is a writer. Not sure of his credentials, other than below:

Daniel Coyle is a contributing editor for Outside magazine and the author of three books, including the New York Times bestseller Lance Armstrong’s War. He has written for Sports Illustrated, The New York Times Magazine, and Play (including this March 2007 cover story which sparked The Talent Code), and is a two-time National Magazine Award finalist. Coyle lives with his wife, Jen, and their four children in Homer, Alaska.

However, I am presuming he has done research talking to people about this. Hopefully, they have medical backgrounds.

I must admit, I never believe anything I read or hear without trying to find corroborating evidence. Unfortunately, there just isn't time to research everything!!!! Typically, everyone has their own level of comfort in accepting supposed facts as facts. Scientists have to be skeptics… "Correlation does not imply causation."

"Lies, damned lies, and statistics" is a phrase describing the persuasive power of numbers, particularly the use of statistics to bolster weak arguments, and the tendency of people to disparage statistics that do not support their positions. It is also sometimes colloquially used to doubt statistics used to prove an opponent's point.

The term was popularised in the United States by Mark Twain (among others), who attributed it to the 19th-century British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli (1804–1881): "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." – Wikipedia

I really liked David Shenk's book, "The Genius in All of Us". The first half was his book. The second half is an exhaustive list of references. Nice to see he is being so detailed and transparent, but unless someone confirms all of his sources, who's to say what Shenk presents is true either? <SIGH> I guess what I am saying is that if a large number of 'experts' says it's true, probability would suggest it is. Else you might go crazy and become obsessed trying to find "the Truth". If you do, let Mulder and Scully (X-Files) know! (Mind you, wasn't it an accepted fact, presented by the 'experts' of the day, that the world was flat; and we should 'bleed' sick people to make them feel better?)…

Anyway, back to your question.

I think Coyle is saying that Myelin growth can be sparked through practice. I don't know 'how': Does it grow at a quicker rate? Does it grow to a greater volume (for lack of a better word… I don't know how you 'measure' myelin)? Can this growth occur in anyone – even someone who has finished growing? Can it be 'topped up' to previous levels, or increased to a larger size than before? I don't know…

I heard something last week on the news about the growth of myelin in experiments, but only caught the last part of it. Wouldn't it be great if they could 'grow' it and help MS sufferers?

Perhaps your wife can share some reasearch articles with us? If so, please post them. Healthy discussion will ensue…!

Here are some comments from his site that help provide insights about the book:

Brandon says:

January 8, 2011 at 1:27 am

Great book like everyone has said, but it actually made a huge change in my thinking. Everything is learned; social skills, sports skills, academics skills, it makes the world so much more open. I have two questions for the author.

1. The idea of greatness is personal correct? People have different levels of ability and greatness? Not everyone can be Federer, if they did the same training as him? Or anyone can anyone be Federer, if they had the same amounts of hours of deep practice?

2. There are some exceptions to the theory. Some professional athletes have not put in the same amount of hours? Some musician have a better ear for music which changes the learning curve for them? Some people never had a coach and were self taught? Or are these just urban legend?

3. Last one, some people learn golf skills faster than others and are more coachable. It is just a fact. I take two people with same amount of skill (zero) and one will learn faster? Do they know how to train better or is there talent involved with this scenario?
They are all basically the same question with a little variation. Let us know what you think.

Thanks

djcoyle says:

January 10, 2011 at 8:47 pm

Hey Brandon, Thanks a lot. And you are putting your finger on the Deepest Question — one that I’m sure I can’t answer fully. But here goes anyway.

There are basically three truths:

1) Not all of us can be Michelangelo/Federer/Mozart/etc.

2) We all share roughly the same path forward.

3) The brain is very large, and it grows.

Well, that’s sort of four points, but you get mine. Yes, there appear to be aptitudes — and yes, some people learn at different rates. And if you believe that genes are destiny, then it’s easy to get hypnotized by these early differences Because no matter who you are, you’ve got to put in the time/effort/motivation to get better. It’s the way we’re built.

“Natural talent” is code for “started earlier and practiced harder.” — I don’t recall where I read that, but there’s some truth in it.

juan2thepaab says:

January 24, 2011 at 9:37 pm

Just finished the book. Overall I enjoyed it. Here are some thoughts…

Something I feel that was not clear in the book was that the statement “once a skill circuit is insulated, you can’t un-insulate it (except through age or disease)” seems to contradict the “Rule Two: Repeat It” section where you explain that myelin is in a “constant cycle of breakdown and repair”, (e.g. “What’s the simplest way to diminish the skills of a superstar talent? Don’t let them practice for a month”). Could you clear this up?

Secondly, something I am personally curious about that I wish was covered is why development is not always gradual or linear. Sometimes student’s ability can plateau for an amount of time and then suddenly make a giant leap in their progress (from their own point of view, not just others’).

And lastly, I can’t help but notice the parallels between the book’s concepts and the much talked about parenting beliefs of Amy Chua. For example, “What Chinese parents understand is that nothing is fun until you’re good at it. To get good at anything you have to work” sounds a lot like “the truth is, when you are starting out, you do not “play” tennis; you struggle and fight and pay attention and slowly get better”– although, Amy pushes it to the extreme by not letting her kids go to the bathroom until they’ve got it perfect, or threatening to deprive them of dinner if they don’t practice.

That’s my two cents. Thanks for the great book on a very valuable topic!

—–

Now regarding the 10,000 hour rule. John the Colombian and I were debating this last week: Who came up with this? I can't find anyone attributed to the origin of this. However, Gladwell, Coyle, et al have all mentioned this… as has Canadian Sport For Life, USA Hockey, etc. Lots of people reference it. But what is it's origin? How does one quantify this and if you can, is this quantification legit / true? How did whomever arrive at it? I almost think it has become a popularized way of saying that "the more you practice, the better you will become" in an offhand, dismissive fashion. Add some numbers and voila, a marketing ploy. (How to Lie With Statistics.) Seems to make sense to me… but why was the needle (allegedly) pointed to 10,000 hours?

I suggest you read the entire book. (I myself should probably re-read it… but I have about 30 other books calling my name first! I will add it to my list…) You don't have to suspend your belief – a healthy skepticism is what causes one to ask questions and cause change! – but it might help paint a clearer picture for you – of what Coyle is trying to say.

Ultimately, I too would like to hear more definitive things about myelin. If anyone can help, please chime in and share it. If I can find more stuff about this, I will post it.

—–

This site looks interesting… http://axonpotential.com/about/

Not sure what to make of it yet.

Dean
M.Ed (Coaching)
Ch.P.C. (Chartered Professional Coach)
Game Intelligence Training
"Great education depends on great teaching."