17 -1 loss

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  • #2188
    Steve MacLeod
    Participant

    Guys we got beat 17 -1 last night . The team was superior but no effort from the start . We practice tonight , how should this go ? Bag skate ( no work last night ) or regular practice with battle drills incorporated ? and attention to hard work

    #3276
    Kai K
    Participant

    When we got beat ugly. We would go through the game before the next practice. meybe from video if possible or on white board. And we would involve players into conversation. Beacause players too have some kind of idea what went wrong or what was good. Then we would leave it behind and focus to things ahead.

    Kai

    Kai

    #3281
    Tom Molloy
    Keymaster

    You get beat because either the other team is better, you are just as good but no puck luck, they worked hard and you didn't, you both worked hard and the skill level is similar but they have better playing habits.

    You never want to admit that you just aren't good enough because then there is a built in excuse.

    I suggest you focus on working harder and having good habits. You have a coaching window because the players are looking for answers and will be listening if you bring good ideas forward.

    Focus on Defensive side, tight gaps and close support on both offense and defense. Finish practice with a very hard 20 min. skate to emphasize hard work but not break their spirit. After practice ask the players why the practice was like it was and make sure the conclusion is that they need to play with good habits and work hard.

    I hope these ideas help.

    'The Game is the Greatest Coach'
    'Enjoy the Game'

    #3282
    hockeygod
    Participant

    Drink heavily!!!

    Try some Duff beer…. or rye.

    Seriously, if the other team was better, that's life. But if your work ethic is / was poor, more battle and competition drills. Hold the kids accountable in practice… But I wouldn't bag skate them. Maybe a disguised bag skate in the form of continuous backcheck games and other physically demanding situations to 'remind' them – but it needs to have a purpose.

    Learn from it and move on.

    Some days you are the bug and other days you are the windshield!

    Dean
    M.Ed (Coaching)
    Ch.P.C. (Chartered Professional Coach)
    Game Intelligence Training

    "Great education depends on great teaching."

    #3283
    Steve MacLeod
    Participant

    Thanks guys . Tom I did what you suggested . Half hour tactics, last half hour competitive races and then the ol' J drill . They responded well and worked hard to show good work ethic ( dryland followed ! ) We practice Saturday before our Sunday game . Will focus on good work habits and solid team play .

    ———————–
    Smac, good luck with the game. If you watch Kai's video of Detroit vs Pitt. you see the true nature of the game which is constant transition from offense-loose puck-defense- offense etc. That is why good habits and close support are critical. The good thing is that these things are teachable and a team with good habits, which means it is working hard because bad habits are usually lazy habits, can really improve throughout a season.

    Face the puck, stick on stick and body on body, defensive side, play tight gaps, stick in the passing lanes, give a target, give and go, move to open ice when you get the puck, create 2-1's on offense and defense, shoot quickly and follow your shot, head on a swivel and count the players to know your role. All of these habits are what separate and effective player from an ineffective player.

    If you can get your players to buy into playing with good habits then your team can reach it's potential which may be the championship or may be being competitive in every game.
    Tom

    #3284
    Kai K
    Participant

    What is your opinion, should the practice after the game reflect the game you had?

    I really would like to have some other views on this. Because we followed our weekly plan quite to the letter.
    our week looked like this: (this was U18 team)

    Thursday: off-ice + on-ice (team play)
    Friday: off- ice + on-ice (pre game team play)
    Saturday: Game
    Sunday: Game
    Monday: off-ice (aerobic/recovery) + on-ice (skills / low tempo)
    Tuesday: off-ice + on-ice (individual tactics/ sag etc)
    Wednesday: no practice

    We would do some adjustments depending on the games but the monday was always low tempo skills.
    So any thoughts on monday sessions or how do you see the whole week program

    —————————–
    Kai

    Kai, when I have a team that practices regularly as I had in college I follow this plan. The first 20-30 minutes in every practice focuses on role 1.
    Monday, Game playing role 1, practice individual offensive skills and skating skills. Dryland after practice with activities like spin class on bikes or plyo's.
    Tuesday: Game playing role 3, individual defensive skills. Checking techniques and situations up to 3-3.
    Wed. Game playing role 2, team offensive skills. Breakouts, power play, cycling etc. Situations 4-3 to 6-5
    Thurs. Game playing role 4. team defensive skills, dzone, pk, battling. Situations 3-4 to 5 on 6.
    Game Fri. Sat.
    Tom

    Kai

    #3287
    hockeygod
    Participant

    Kai,

    I like how you have your weekly template set up. Based on your analysis, what works well and what doesn’t… and why? Can you improve it? I am interested in hearing your assessment (and no doubt, so are others!)

    I am going to post something under the "art of coaching" thread you might find interesting…

    Regards,

    Dean
    M.Ed (Coaching)
    Ch.P.C. (Chartered Professional Coach)
    Game Intelligence Training

    "Great education depends on great teaching."

    #3309
    Petri Vaisanen
    Participant

    Hi all,

    Our weekly plan goes something like this (changes possible as usual but the general guide line is as):
    Mon:
    – Off-ice: strength (for example; 8-10 x 2 x 10 one-legged squats w/ 2.5kg weight)
    – On-ice: skills (for example; skating, skating w/ puck, puck handling and etc.) + SAGs
    Tue:
    – Part of the team is at practice w/ club coaches, rest are resting or hopefully playing something outside (pihapeli?) 🙂
    Wed:
    – Off-ice: speed (for example; spurts w/ decision, one-legged skips or jumps, plyometrics)
    – On-ice: skills (for example; passing drills) + SAGs
    Thu:
    – Off-ice: agility or "movement frequency" (for example; agility ladder drills as specific to skating as possible w/ high foot speed)
    – On-ice: game situations (for example; 1-1, 2-1, 1-2 and etc. since Thu is half-group only practice = repetitions)
    Fri:
    – Off-ice: mobility (for example; dynamic mobility w/ some "animal" movements, bear, crab and etc.)
    – On-ice: high tempo drills and game (for example; 2-2 in small area like corner w/ keep-away or scoring, high speed passing drills and anything from 3-2 continuous to a 5-5 game)
    Sat/Sun:
    – Game(s)

    Has worked in my opinion though Mon is sometimes a hard evening for the boys…

    #3314
    hockeygod
    Participant

    Koutsi97,

    What age group / skill level is this plan for? Curious to know before I can put it into context….

    The international SISEC midget team trains just outside of the city on a bedroom town (Cochrane). They train a ton! Not sure how periodized it is… here is a general plan: (all practices on-ice unless noted.)

    Fri / Sat / Sun games. One of these days is sometimes off (but includes travel as they drive from Kelowna and Penticton BC to Banff AB, to Cochrane AB and Calgary AB. Some tourney's too…)

    Mon 7-8 am; 11 am – 12 pm (with me); 4-5 pm; 515-615 pm off-ice
    Tues 7-8 am; 4-5 pm
    Wed 7-8 am; 4-5 pm; 515-615 pm off-ice
    Thurs 7-8 am; 9-10 am (with me); 4-5 pm

    Crazy schedule. They might have changed it a bit since the start of the season- as they only have about 17 players this year (including 3 goalies) and several are hurt. Some are chronic; some acute. I think overtraining could be an issue / cause here. (But I don't know exactly "what" they do or "when" – all I know is the kids often seem tired.)

    Finally, your avatar appears to be a big yellow lion… but my failing eyesight can detect a very tiny beer (or is that vodka?) in it's hand… you should see if you can come up with a bigger beer avatar!

    Dean
    M.Ed (Coaching)
    Ch.P.C. (Chartered Professional Coach)
    Game Intelligence Training

    "Great education depends on great teaching."

    #3323
    Petri Vaisanen
    Participant

    hockeygod wrote:
    Koutsi97,

    What age group / skill level is this plan for? Curious to know before I can put it into context….

    Sorry for the late answer. Games Sat and Sun, practices Mon, so no computer time for me. These are '97 born so is it U14 boys, we have about 30 skaters and 4 goalies divided to two playing teams but they practice together Mon, Wed and Fri. Except the boys who practice Tue with the club coaches, they have the Wed as resting day.

    #3334
    hockeygod
    Participant

    Thanks Koutsi97!

    Are these considered elite U14's? Or average / club level; or recreational level?

    Understandable that Mondays are tougher with this schedule.

    Good to see the weights aren't too heavy as they are still at the age where the PHV (Peak Height Velocity) – or growth spurt – for males – is just occurring.

    One of the SISEC kids was tested last week (he tore some muscles off his hip) and the MRI results showed that even though he is 17 years old, he still has some growing to do… he is only 5'7" and 145 lbs. The Doctors couldn't tell him how much he will grow, but said the growth plates hadn't fused together yet. So he is happy he will grow; time will tell if this is a career-ending injury (for hockey.)

    Dean
    M.Ed (Coaching)
    Ch.P.C. (Chartered Professional Coach)
    Game Intelligence Training

    "Great education depends on great teaching."

    #3335
    Kai K
    Participant

    hockeygod wrote:
    Thanks Koutsi97!

    Are these considered elite U14's? Or average / club level; or recreational level?

    Understandable that Mondays are tougher with this schedule.

    Good to see the weights aren't too heavy as they are still at the age where the PHV (Peak Height Velocity) – or growth spurt – for males – is just occurring.

    One of the SISEC kids was tested last week (he tore some muscles off his hip) and the MRI results showed that even though he is 17 years old, he still has some growing to do… he is only 5'7" and 145 lbs. The Doctors couldn't tell him how much he will grow, but said the growth plates hadn't fused together yet. So he is happy he will grow; time will tell if this is a career-ending injury (for hockey.)

    Some of Finnish hockey clubs use doctors to determine the junior players biological age before they start strenght training with bigger weights. (I wish we had this system too in our club)

    Kai

    Kai

    #3337
    hockeygod
    Participant

    Some of Finnish hockey clubs use doctors to determine the junior players biological age before they start strenght training with bigger weights. (I wish we had this system too in our club)

    Kai

    In a perfect world, this service would be available to us at a reasonable fee and on a reasonable timeline! But it is not the norm here… one has to guesstimate!

    I found it odd that this SISEC kid (at 17) still has growing to do! He is probably at the one end of the Bell Curve for growth / age. This is not the norm, but again, chronological age doesn't always line up with biological age… individual differences are just that – they vary from one to another!

    The best thing to come out of this discussion is that more coaches become aware of when PHV occurs (stereotypically speaking); knows not to kill the kids with heavy weights during this delicate time; and is aware of individual differences.

    Dean
    M.Ed (Coaching)
    Ch.P.C. (Chartered Professional Coach)
    Game Intelligence Training

    "Great education depends on great teaching."

    #3338
    Kai K
    Participant

    hockeygod wrote:
    Some of Finnish hockey clubs use doctors to determine the junior players biological age before they start strenght training with bigger weights. (I wish we had this system too in our club)

    Kai

    In a perfect world, this service would be available to us at a reasonable fee and on a reasonable timeline! But it is not the norm here… one has to guesstimate!

    I found it odd that this SISEC kid (at 17) still has growing to do! He is probably at the one end of the Bell Curve for growth / age. This is not the norm, but again, chronological age doesn't always line up with biological age… individual differences are just that – they vary from one to another!

    The best thing to come out of this discussion is that more coaches become aware of when PHV occurs (stereotypically speaking); knows not to kill the kids with heavy weights during this delicate time; and is aware of individual differences.

    Biological age vary +/- 4 years in one age group. That is makes coaching teenagers challenging. you need good planing fpr your oof-ace training so that everyone gets right and safe training.

    Kai

    #3339
    Petri Vaisanen
    Participant

    hockeygod wrote:
    Thanks Koutsi97!
    Are these considered elite U14's? Or average / club level; or recreational level?
    Understandable that Mondays are tougher with this schedule.
    Good to see the weights aren't too heavy as they are still at the age where the PHV (Peak Height Velocity) – or growth spurt – for males – is just occurring.

    I think most of these players are considered to be elite or AAA level. The 2.5kg disk is all we have for these and that's good, you can make things more difficult instead of just having bigger weights. For example like in here by using one-legged squat instead of the two-legged version. One step from this example could be one-legged snatch with that 2.5kg disk, perform the one-legged squat at the balance board or similar and so on. Usually also planks are used on Mondays to develop core instead of legs but anyway Mon is our strength day in every case.

    The growth spurt might have occurred for very few of these, most are having it at we speak and some it is to be happen 🙂, so we know that the age is very difficult. We have very good coaching staff with this team and in my opinion we are doing good with these kids. I am personally proud that injuries due to the training is very rear with these, we have been trying to teach the right movements and take as much dynamic mobility and dynamic movements as possible, stretching they have to do by themselves at home. See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2vO-4k-x_k

    Need to have a beer with camera since I don't own any photo with beer in my hand??? Strange, but don't worry we have this player "mapping/survey/checkup" next weekend at Vuokatti, Sotkamo, were we have about 80 players and some coaches all around from northern Finland, maybe in Sat evening after sitting 6 hours at the ice rink we have change to take a few, photos I mean 😉…

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